thoughts from the other side ............

[rusty]

i stopped gambling in august 2005. My problem was internet poker. i gambled on a regular basis at the casino too.

i suppose i am remembering what it was like in the early stages of what it was like to stop gambling, and the help and support that was available to me. there was very little support around then

my husband had no conception of what a gambling problem was like, and no conception of what he could do to help and support me.

that was often a basis of contention between us. His view was that if i wasnt gambling then the problem was solved.

he couldnt understand why in the early stages i was emotionally volitile, and i couldnt understand why he didnt realise how difficult not gambling was for me.

we were unable to discuss these feelings rationally together. We both seemed to be hitting brick walls. there was little give on either side.

i valued my husband, and when i stopped gambling, i realised how much i loved and valued my husband. while i was gambling, yes i had the knowlege that i loved him, but playing poker was much more important to me. have no explanation for that - except that was how it was.

but also when i stopped gambling, it was only then that i realised just how much of a mess my life was in. for about 2 years i had completely opted out. in gambling i blocked emotions and feelings, and as i struggled to come to terms with that, and unblock those emotions and feelings, it was a very bumpy journey, and one in which my husband felt powerless to help.

but given that his view was - if you are not gambling, then problem is solved,that in itself prevented him from supporting me. He was unable to see that i did need that support. I think there was almost a denial of any problem there for him. but the problem was not about whether i was gambling or not, because i wasnt, the problem was around what do i do about the emotional aftermath that a gambling problem leaves.

a gambling addiction is not just and not only about money

but ....... he was angry at the amount of money i had spent, and he couldnt get passed that. so there was little discussion around the emotional aspects of the problem - either from his perspective or mine

i guess what we did was deal with our problems in our own way, but that in itself was emotionally draining and exhausting. we seemed to be in paralel universes.

i think what i am saying is that it is so important for a couple to talk to each other about how the gambling problem has affected each of the partnership.

yes there are trust issues - gamblers lie, cheat, manipulate, to name but a few! and those are all huge hurdles for couples to deal with, but if the marriage is to continue and succeed, then there needs to be an understanding on both sides of where the other is coming from.

where the unaffected partner can get information around what a gambling addiction is, what it entails, how it affects the gambler, then that is a starting point.

the aftermath of a gambling problem can last for years. its a step by step and day by day approach, but it is do-able

love
rusty
xx

[shahni]

I have stopped gambling for 3 weeks now and have found it harder to give up gambling than I did smoking. My partner doesnt understand what Im going through. Hes never been addicted to anything - I think anyone who has never suffered from addiction may find it hard to understand.
Good to know youve made it so long....thx gives me hope.

[ktya]

I think that my girlfriend is nearing the same stage that you describe

Her financial life is a complete mess, two maxed out credit cards owes all her friends money probably owes co-workers money hooked on payday loans.

I was with her for four months until I started to notice that gambling was a problem. Maybe she was really trying to keep it under control when I first met her. She was talking about suicide and was crying herself to sleep all the time. She would get very upset if I didnt want to spend the night with her or if I wanted to spend time with my friends, all upset telling me that I wasnt there for her when she needed the most. It was hard because she would often be very abrasive and hard to deal with at the same time, I wanted to leave because I didnt want to be treated that way.

I encouraged her to seek out help because I figured she was depressed and needed a little helpful push. She went on anti-depressants and boy did the gambling ever go off the deep end. Once she got up to her full prescibed dose (they start small and go upwards) she blew over four grand in 9 days in what must have been 8 sessions of 15-25 hours each of poker in the poker room.

Now she is struggling. Always after a big loss saying she isnt going to play for a while so she can catch up on her finances. Always hitting the poker room a few weeks later. I dont live with her and there's nights she cant sleep at all, even when she has to work at 6 in the morning. I dont know if shes playing onling but I know she has a full tilt account.

She still likes me to stay over at her house... But now that she is regularly gambling, she never wants to come over to my house anymore. If she has a day off on the weekends (i work mon - fri) she usually has that day reserved for gambling and playing poker with her friends. She's taken to going to the US now to gamble.

The longer I'm with her the more I realize that gambling is such a huge part of her life. She has gambling friends, people she met at the poker table even a year ago that I can't really meet. I asked if I could go with her today to the US on her gambling trip but I wasnt allowed to go with her (I dont gamble at all, I just dont find it interesting). She will be sad and want nothing but to be alone for days and days and then a poker buddy will call or text or payday comes along and all her sorrows evaporate and then she's gone for 8-10 hours.

I think she's trying to manage the problem on her own but failing dismally. She is under some stupid impression that she is a semi-professional or pro poker player. However she almost always invariably loses, mostly because I think she doesn't know how to walk away when she's ahead.

Whats worse is she works in a casino. So the triggers surround her. She is a supervisor and she gets paid quite well plus tips. Her co-workers play tournament poker after work at someone's house. Her boss plays poker. Of course she is a poker room manager. She has no real other skills to just get the hell out of that job.

Luckily, after about $1,000 in gifts, jewelery (she made sure it was stamped 14k and had a gemological certificate.... ) stopgap bridging help (money for medications, tires for her car) and a $300 loan that she only paid me back $100 for to cover a shortfall in her rent I've stopped giving her money. We dont live together so we arent intertwined financially.

She refuses that she has any kind of a gambling problem. She only goes "once or twice a month" but I know that there is onling gaming at full tilt and often she sees "friends" and goes to the movies and dinner and lunch with them all in the same day which can last for as long as 9 hours. When I want to meet the friend they "are not important" and its someone she met at a poker table.

I'm starting to get really frustrated though. I am almost ready to give up on her. It seems that when she is filled with anxiety and bummed out, broke and depressed she wonders what I am doing and wants me to come over. If I have money to give her I see her within the hour. It hurts to have her complain about crying herself to sleep for five days in a row (after gambling in the states the day after payday) and being broke and then her tips come along and she's off with a friend for a whole day. I can barely ever get her to do something other than sit around at her house or go to some place with a cash register to buy something.

I keep talking to her about it, how I want to meet her "friends" because I dont know who she is hanging around with for 8, 9 hours at a pop, about how I want to do stuff with her other than sit around or go some place to buy some crap. How I want to spend some time doing something with her.

I keep hitting brick walls. I am a very patient and understanding person. I dont start arguments but something common sense like I want to meet this male friend you spent 8 hours with today turns into an all out argument where she feels like she's being attacked. This total lack of common sense is very frustrating. I'm not being unreasonable.

[Sab]

Hi KTYA,
So glad you have joined us! Please feel free to vent your thoughts with us here. It is so hard to remain supportive of a loved one while they are going through gambling problems and it is really healthy for you to talk about your feelings, even the negative ones, so that you can keep on supporting them.
Has your GF ever tried to stop all gambling? Has she tried therapy, or meetings?
Are you aware of any resources in your area that you could both be using to get through this?

[ktya]

thanks

no she hasnt really overtly tried to stop all gambling. she will have a big loss and then resign herself that she wont gamble for a long time to get caught up on her bills and cards but then in under a month she ends up playing poker again

the best thing for her thats available is to self-exclude. thats for two reasons. for one, she tends to actually win at online poker and lose at the casino and for two she tends to get "hooked" at the casino once she goes once it becomes a snowball effect and she keeps going and going and then gambling online and it becomes a big problem until she swamps herself again. not that online poker is good for her she loses money at that too

she gets really upset at me when i bring up her gambling, freaking out and hanging up on me when i infer that there's a problem.

just yesterday i was hoping to spend time with her, she made plans to go the the US to gamble in some poker tournament. she didnt even call me when she got back, i called her and she was sitting at home. whether she went to the us at all i dont even know, maybe it was an online thing or maybe she just wanted to go to the local casino or maybe her friends bailed

what is the most frustrating is that I just never seem to know the truth. I find myself constantly questioning myself and asking myself things like "is she really hanging out going to the movies?" 6, 7 8 hour movie and dinner with friends is common. i hate to seem suspicious and want to verify... but who goes to the movies and the mall and spends that amount of time with people.

then theres the times that i know she's in the casino. she gets all upset and mad if i try to hold her to plans like she will come over for dinner or whatever. she says that when i get upset about her coming over as planned she starts to play donkey and then she loses a lot of money and blames it on me

now she just doesnt come over she only wants me to go to her house she gets angry if anyone is waiting around for her when shes at the casino even if it's one of her poker playing friends telling her its time to go

i dont know. i feel really lonely this game has robbed me of my girlfriend

[ShaunGTI]

ktya....How long have you been together?

It sounds like she does not recognize a problem at all even when distinct details are pointed out to her. Remember, you can only lead the horse to water, can't make it drink...

[ktya]

we have been together 8 months now.

when i met her she didnt seem to gamble that much but she was very depressed and talking about suicide never acting on it and she was really really clingy. she would be so clingy that she would get tremendously upset if i said i had to go home because i needed to feed my cats.

eventually it became too much for me i told her she needed to talk to someone her doctor or something about depression because it was suffocating

then she went on antidepressants

she was feeling much better then she had a blitzer of a month where she blew almost five thousand dollars in poker, a thousand in a night, way way beyond her means. i was very worried for her i thought it was the meds

i brought up gambling to her and said she had a problem but she got upset with me and said she doesnt have a problem and doesnt like to be referred to as a gambler

then more visits to the casino and she keeps all of her friends seperate now which is frustrating. she has work buddies she plays poker with (she works in a casino) she has friends that I know that she plays poker with and she has poker friends (" Oh I met him at the poker table a year ago ") that she goes out to "movies and dinner" with but that lasts for like 8 hours and I doubt they're at the movies

i think the compartmentalization of the friends is all a ruse. she says she plays only once or twice a month with her girlfriend but then she plays tournament with work buddies after work and these guys i think its just to cover up how much she is actually gambling. of course there's online too nights she doesnt sleep until 4 in the morning when she has to work at six. she says she just cant sleep.

i kind of had a blowout with her yesterday... i said some things i probably shouldnt have. but i've barely seen much of her in the past few weeks and she had a day off on a weekend which is rare (i work mon - fri) and she went to the us to go gamble as i described. i called her in the evening and she was at home didnt even bother to tell me she was back.

i brought up gambling and how angry i was with the whole stupid casino thing how they cant detect problem gamblers. she flipped and said she doesnt have a gambling problem and i was like look you have two maxed out credit cards your hooked on payday loans you get paid and the first thing you do is go to the states to play poker and I could hear her computer clicking she kept hanging up on me she was probably playing poker online.

you are correct that i am pointing things out to her and she is not really recognizing it at all. i was very upset because she has these poker friends i cant meet and work friends she plays poker with that i cant meet and she owes every friend of hers that i know money and she doesnt hang out with those people any more.

all i really want is some of her time

i thought at first she was suffering from generalized anxiety disorder after she went on the meds she was much better but it all makes perfect sense now...

she is a hard core gambling addict. the depression is because she wasnt gambling, the clingyness was because she was trying not to gamble, the anxiety is because of the financial mess she's created for herself and the days where she wants to just hang out and be alone she's either playing poker online or overwhelmed with the financial mess she's put herself into. the reason she is brutal about wanting me to give her diamond rings as gifts is because she wants stuff to pawn and the reason she runs out of cash for important crap like her meds is because she has spent the money gambling and she's run out of cash.

last time she stayed over at my house was two weeks ago. i had $150 to give her for the bills and almost immediately after i told her I had this money for her she asked me for another $60. I was kind of upset because I had just gotten paid like an hour earlier and she was already asking for money which always seems to happen on payday. she grilled me about the 60 when she got here woke me up i fell asleep waiting for her on the couch and then when i woke up she was like "are you going to give me the 60 or not" and when i told her i'd give it to her she just left even though i had arranged to work from home that day because i wanted to spend the morning with her

she was going to go to a parade with me but ended up gambling until 4am and bailed didnt even phone me to say the plan was off when she got home. was going to go to the furniture store with me on saturday and then told me half an hour before she got off work that the plan was off and she was going straight home would call me then didnt hear from her until 6 hours later.

the gambling is getting much worse and I can tell she's lying about it.

she is a very good person and very kind she helped me out of a really rough spot and she does certainly have some issues I dont want to just leave her and make it all worse but I kind of want a girlfriend who is actually around and who likes to spend time with me.

it feels like she will feel all crappy and want to be alone and be so bummed out and depressed and i try to be kind to her and help her emotionally, then almost like a switch she is fine and out having fun with her friends or playing in a poker tournament when she could barely rise out of bed for the previous four or five days she felt so awful.

i dont really know what to do

then the casino visits got much more reg

[Sab]

A lot of these problems probably stem from her gambling however, they have become relationship problems too. You wouldn't accept behaviour like this from anyone else in your life, would you? She needs to be willing and wanting to work at the relationship is she expects it to continue. If that means getting therapy to address these problems, so be it.
I understand that she doesn't think that she's got a gambling problem, and Shaun is right, you can't force someone to believe it but, she can't deny that there are cracks a mile wide in your relationship that need fixing. Perhaps she would agree to get some couples counseling? Maybe that would be a gentle way to start talking about the gambling issues if she is not willing to confront it outright just yet with gambling therapy. Just postulating here really....

[ktya]

you are very correct that they have become relationship problems too

its getting to the point where i'm on the fence about whether I want to continue with the relationship at all. however its of course complicated.. she is scared about her health, her father is sick, she is dealing with anxiety and on antidepressants and depression and she has crying spells. i told her i'd stick it through with her and help her get better... so if i were to break up with her i'd feel bad not only because of the above but because she stuck with me when i was having a really rough financial time and helped me out a lot.

it just feels like the plethora of issues keeps getting bigger and bigger. the antidepressants make it hard for her to feel any emotion so she cant feel really love for me but she knows its the pills... the gambling, the money, the lack of time spent together...

i really do care about her she is such a kind person. however i just am at the point where i feel like i'm going crazy... i see all these gambling-related problems and time spent gambling and then i bring it up to her and she freaks out at me.

i'm starting to get really angry and resentful, i've snapped at her pretty bad a few times which isnt very helpful with her depression and anxiety and whatever else. however its getting really stressful.

i dont want much but to spend time with her. and that's the rub. the time i do get to spend with her she's broke down on her luck depressed snappy lethargic just wants to go to bed and sleep (i think she uses me as a sleep-aid she has a hard time sleeping in that mode or she ends up gambling online) and then the "good times" she has are all at the casino with poker people.

its not like i dont get to spend time with her but i only get to spend time with her at her house and only to sleep and its usually on a moment's notice

so yeah you are right. thats why i have basically told her i want to meet these male poker friends she spends time with and brought up the gambling and gotten upset about her prioritizing her poker playing above time spent with me. she doesnt want me to meet the poker friends because "they arent important" and she violently denies that gambling takes priority over me.

so i'm kind of at wits end.

i guess i'm torn... try to help her emotionally and deal with all this crap or take steps and walk. 8 months in and this is the scenario? most people are talking about moving in together... i'm afraid of her moving in with me because of the money spent gambling. i kind of promised her and getting the antidepressants was a good first step for her it was a tough thing for her to do

mostly i need to talk to someone who understands what its like living with a gambler i guess thats why im here. how do you deal with the crazyness?

[ShaunGTI]

Hey ktya,

I was almost in the same situation with my girlfriend except I was causing the problems. Have you met her family yet? Are they aware of the issues? Perhaps its time to issue and ultimatum if you feel it has got that bad. You have to remember that you need to live a full life as well and not be anyone's punching bag.